400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3.4

Posts related to map selection, map location, correct map treatment.

400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3.4

Postby dbwarrior » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:58 am

HI

I had bought that car and start studying and testing how to get that ECU to my "full control" :)
On start it was feeling working really difficult get understand how Driver wish, Torque to IQ, SOI and Turbo maps was working but step by step i things was get opened to me.

First i learn that there is 4 different "running mode"
Normal
De-nox
Light off
Regen

So i need to consecrate to only Normal mode maps.

Then i learn that there is "extra Nm" what is active 256seconds for making 20nm extra

Then i learn to understand torques values from driver wish maps are not used direct. Values are modified to up some kind of "friction" function.
Example on 4000rpm, DW map show 240NM but on Full load and smoke map is pointing 280nm+ values.
On high RPM friction values is more that low rpm. Also IQ values from car on road with original file showing that 280nm
is more close to "ecus internal" torque.

Then i also found 68mg single value limiter what was need to change for getting 80mg.


Then i learn that with Auto Gear Box(AGB) Pedal info is "going" first to AGB ecu and it returns Torque request To engine Ecu what uses first inverse maps for getting accel pedal info. This might help to get shifting process more comfortable(?)


Finally i am able to get modified results for:
- DW
- IQ
- SOI
- Rail Pressure
- Turbo Pressure


Now i had been tested things long time for how to go over 400Nm on that ECU.
Testing is done with these steps:
1. First i modified Torque to IQ map for getting 78-79mg results to log file with torque request 400nm.
2. Then i scale that map to "correct" and re-scaled torque axle up to 420nm
and then testing. IQ results was dropping to level 73-75mq what is equal to 400nm torque

Is there any tuners who had pushed that ecu over 400Nm ?

I am wondering is there Singe Value limiters what need to find and is there many of them ?
I had test few but no luck.

Or is that ECU limiting torque if some fueling related maps has 400nm value on x-Axle or y-axle ?

Or is this limit coming from AGB side ?
I had logged things from AGB. There is torque request, engine torque and pedal info.
Example on 6th gear it shows 380nm request but engine torque seems to limited to exact to 350nm.


It might "feel" to strange that why i am looking so desperate to find that 400nm limitation if almost same overall result can be achieve by modifying maps to "un-calibrated zone" but understand that i am strange person :)
You do not have permissions to view the files yet. You have to be registered and you have to make at least 3 quality / unique posts.

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby dbwarrior » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:51 am

I might get some progress.

I had found out by testing that problem is DW values.
They seems to be limited some how aprox 350-360(need to be test what it is exatly)
Highest Orginal values from DW maps(gears 3-4 and 5-6) was 360Nm, so probly it is quite close that.


So any idea how to found that limitter ?

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby dbwarrior » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:12 pm

HI

My latest tests and loggings show that 360 Nm limit is real and it is limitting valus from DW maps.
So anything what is over 360 is not affecting end result.

Any tips or tricks how i could try to locate them ?
I searched from 1MB binary 5760 value what is 360NM(5760/16=360). There is many axle where is that value but that is not biggest value on that axle. So i assume that i havent found it yet.
Is any other technique what i should use ?

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby Dandi » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:58 pm

Hi dbwarrior

I read your write up with a lot of interest

In a few says I could remap a Peugeot 307 with the same ecu and engine of yours

In the end did you find what is limiting your engine torque?

Dandi
New user
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: Rome - Italy

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby fil1234 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:14 am

check adress cbc96

fil1234
Bronze
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: france

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby dbwarrior » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:38 pm

fil1234 wrote:check adress cbc96

Thanks for info. Damos what I use say that on that address is EGR on torque limit MAP.
So is my Damos wrong?

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby dbwarrior » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:52 pm

Some progress...
I just found out that I see 330nm limitation on gears 1st and 2nd when logging from gear box. Then rest of gears are having 350nm limitation.
Same aisin 6 speed is used 3.0l hdi with 450nm but anyway on my setup gear box seems to be limiting for those levels.
Any idea how to solve this issue?
Am I only one who want to limitation off...

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland

Re: 400 Nm limit on Citroen C5 2.0HDI 2008 136, Delphi DCM 3

Postby dbwarrior » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:18 am

Car is Citroen c5(x7) 2008 with 2.0 16V HDI(RHR)
6 speed Automatic transmission from Aisin Warner ( AWTF-80 SC ).
I had been studied almost 2 years this ecu and now i had been stuck for gear related limitations.
I made especially attached modified remap version for showing this issue.
Here is logged(used FAP app with android) values from gearbox ecu by gear 2 and gear 4

Gear 2 is showing limitation of 330Nm
time ___coolant pedal rev eng_TRQ request_TRQ
09:05:30.0 55 100 2146 248 270
09:05:30.4 55 100 2598 346 294
09:05:30.9 55 100 2887 330 358
09:05:31.3 55 100 2983 330 356
09:05:31.8 55 100 3256 330 328
09:05:32.2 55 100 3553 310 316
09:05:32.7 55 100 3628 300 292
09:05:33.2 55 100 3855 272 284
09:05:33.6 55 100 4063 268 272


Gear 4 is showing limitation of 350Nm.
time ____coolant pedal rev eng_TRQ request_TRQ
09:07:12.7 61 100 1358 216 212
09:07:13.2 61 100 1396 232 236
09:07:13.6 61 100 1464 252 250
09:07:14.1 61 100 1492 262 266
09:07:14.5 61 100 1563 272 270
09:07:15.0 61 100 1631 288 284
09:07:15.4 61 100 1683 308 298
09:07:15.9 61 100 1746 332 318
09:07:16.3 61 100 1805 348 356
09:07:16.8 61 100 1904 348 360
09:07:17.2 61 100 1951 348 364
09:07:17.7 61 100 2047 348 366
09:07:18.1 61 100 2144 348 366
09:07:18.6 61 100 2197 350 366
09:07:19.0 61 100 2313 350 366
09:07:19.5 61 100 2374 350 366
09:07:19.9 61 47 2425 350 302

So something is starting to llimit engine torque to 330 and 350Nm.

Things what is changed on file for pointing out that limitation is happen:
- un-used DW maps max values has been lowerder under 200Nm
- DW map(only one what is really affecting) is slightly modified to make flat DW(F7632)
- Smoke limitter is gained for allowing 400Nm
- Full load torque limitter is allowing 400Nm(F3162)
- Full load torque limitter(in case of AC fault) is lowered to 270Nm just for pointing that it is not used
- Torque limitter for engine speed is gained for allowing 400Nm
- Nm to IQ map is slighlty changed for allowing IQ70 at 400Nm
- IQ max values changed to 71mG
- boost maps changed to having scale for 400Nm
- Mechanical friction map modified to having flat "curve" for temp range 40,60and70celcius and 1300-300rpm
- Extra torque map modified to having flat qurve for rpm 1750-3000

And then something else what are not realted to demoing 330/350nm issue:
- EGR to on temperature rised to 35celcius from 10 degree
- Some dpf values changed for getting longer distances between regeneration of DPF

I would be really thankful for all tips & trics what help to solve this issue.
Also would be interested to hear is this only happen if car has automatic transmission.
You do not have permissions to view the files yet. You have to be registered and you have to make at least 3 quality / unique posts.

dbwarrior
Silver
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 am
Location: finland


Return to Map Location and Addresses

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests